Jump to content


Photo

Space democracy: A brave newbies epic


  • Please log in to reply
53 replies to this topic

#1 Catalyst XI

Catalyst XI

    Abaddon

  • Friend of RvB
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1534 posts
284
Crewman 1st Class  Member Reputation
  • LocationMontreal, Quebec
  • Favorite Ship:Space Potato
  • Race:Caldari

Posted 16 March 2015 - 11:34 PM

for all those who haven't listened to it yet. 40 minutes of tears and mismanagement whining. If you were wondering how to NOT run an alliance.

https://soundcloud.c...gement-meltdown

 

Discussion:

edit: this isn't so much a discussion of the soundcloud bit, but more what led to the insane amount of discontent heard in it, which was due (imo) in large part by the failure of their leadership structure.

so ive been following the drama from BNI for some time, i like their naive attitude towards how leadership should work in eve. they choose to try and have a form of democracy which has proven time and again to fail in eve, i know there are a few exceptions like Razer, i believe they have some sort of council (to fair they're propped up for goons so doesn't really count). I actually hope to see them succeed in their quest for a representative leadership. But the amount of drama that has been coming out seems to indicate they have failed. The many clashing egos of the members of there council of equals seems to have destroyed any effectiveness it had, furthermore they supported a single executive with ambiguous powers and undefined term as a final authority which no doubt undermined the power of the council and created resentment. seems that was there most obvious failure in creating a space democracy.

 

If we compare this to RL, in a presidential system like in the U.S (not saying this is the best form of gov. irl BTW i like my constitutional monarchy :) ) you have the triumvirate of power that keeps each other in check, the judical, the executive and legislative all with clearly defined powers. Now i realize the game mechanics of eve do not lend themselves that easily to this kind of system. in the case of brave they made the mistake of giving the executive too much undefined power and an undefined term and no way to effectively remove him, meaning the executive is essentially free to ignore the elected officials and other officers at his leisure and keep them as far out of the loop as he likes, and as such judging from this latest leak the executive has in fact seized most of the power with the help of a few other supporters.

 

It seems  the power structure of brave will need to change if they wish to continue with this democracy thing, i think if they went all the way and straight copy pasted the way the U.S works it might work, maybe replace the judicial with a senate with greater power, an appointed council of a few cool and level headed non-partisan members, that could bring a much needed arbitration to the brave power structure.

Ps. this is all stuff i have surmised from the info available if someone has better insight please share it!

 

for the record i believe the leadership of RvB, while not perfect is a great example of a meritocracy that works, and i would in no way support a move to any form of democracy :)

 

any opinions on the matter?

 

 

e: for readability


  • 4
Resident RvB bad

#2 Del DelVechio

Del DelVechio

    Fleet Scythe

  • Administrators
  • 6395 posts
1230
Lieutenant Junior Grade  Member Reputation
  • Location(Vegas Baby!)
  • Favorite Ship:Armored Car
  • Race:Caldari

Posted 17 March 2015 - 12:10 AM

RvB has the best leadership ever.......
  • 0
Posted Image

#3 Delucian

Delucian

    Wyvern

  • Friend of RvB
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5606 posts
634
Chief Petty Officer  Member Reputation
  • LocationTexas
  • Favorite Ship:Atron
  • Race:Caldari

Posted 17 March 2015 - 12:30 AM

Did you just call us mediocre?
  • 0

I'm a walking nightmare, an arsenal of doom
I kill conversation as I walk into the room
I'm a three line whip, I'm the sort of thing they ban
I'm a walking disaster, I'm a demolition man

Delucian.png


#4 Jiny

Jiny

    Abaddon

  • RvB Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1754 posts
157
Crewman 2nd Class  Member Reputation
  • LocationCA
  • Favorite Ship:Kestrel
  • Race:Minmatar

Posted 17 March 2015 - 12:34 AM

Oh good, this is not an attempted revolution...*orders secret police back to barracks* "No violent crackdown tonight boys..."

 


  • 0

#5 Catalyst XI

Catalyst XI

    Abaddon

  • Friend of RvB
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1534 posts
284
Crewman 1st Class  Member Reputation
  • LocationMontreal, Quebec
  • Favorite Ship:Space Potato
  • Race:Caldari

Posted 17 March 2015 - 12:45 AM

Did you just call us mediocre?

i called you adequate! :3


  • 0
Resident RvB bad

#6 Shenanigansbus

Shenanigansbus

    The Bus

  • Friend of RvB
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1561 posts
200
Crewman 1st Class  Member Reputation
  • LocationTurn around...
  • Favorite Ship:Giant Taranis
  • Race:Gallente

Posted 17 March 2015 - 01:09 AM

Oh good, this is not an attempted revolution...*orders secret police back to barracks* "No violent crackdown tonight boys..."

 

Goes home :(


  • 0

E2o8l.png


#7 Matthias Duran

Matthias Duran

    Abaddon

  • RvB Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1690 posts
206
Crewman 1st Class  Member Reputation
  • Race:Minmatar

Posted 17 March 2015 - 01:17 AM

Yep, in addition to the built in problems with RL democracy - slow response times, the ability to buy voters with government handouts, etc. - eve has the additional problems of immortal players and no binding court system. If something goes terribly wrong in RL, there's always the final option of simply killing everyone involved. No dictator lasts forever. In eve, however, there's no resort if someone decides to take the isk and run, or starts making bad decisions and refuses to step down.


  • 1
People who whine about not being trusted are either:<br />1) Operatives for the Enemy<br />2) Totally clueless about concepts like OPSEC and need-to-know<br />3) Dangerously neurotic and/or immature<br />and are consequently not to be trusted.

#8 Delucian

Delucian

    Wyvern

  • Friend of RvB
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5606 posts
634
Chief Petty Officer  Member Reputation
  • LocationTexas
  • Favorite Ship:Atron
  • Race:Caldari

Posted 17 March 2015 - 01:36 AM

i called you adequate! :3


Thanks I feel better.
  • 0

I'm a walking nightmare, an arsenal of doom
I kill conversation as I walk into the room
I'm a three line whip, I'm the sort of thing they ban
I'm a walking disaster, I'm a demolition man

Delucian.png


#9 Jasper Sinclair

Jasper Sinclair

    Astarte

  • CEO
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 817 posts
177
Crewman 2nd Class  Member Reputation
  • LocationNew Hampshire, USA
  • Favorite Ship:USS Constitution
  • Race:Caldari

Posted 17 March 2015 - 12:14 PM

In EVE we are all gods. There is no way any system of government designed for mortals will work. I think player interaction in the game can probably find many parallels within Greek/Roman or Norse mythology. So the obvious question now is who in RvB is who in the Greek Pantheon?


  • 0

#10 Lady Ayeipsia

Lady Ayeipsia

    Chimera

  • RvB Insider
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3402 posts
708
Senior Chief Petty Officer  Member Reputation
  • Favorite Ship:Kestrel
  • Race:Caldari

Posted 17 March 2015 - 12:56 PM

In EVE we are all gods. There is no way any system of government designed for mortals will work. I think player interaction in the game can probably find many parallels within Greek/Roman or Norse mythology. So the obvious question now is who in RvB is who in the Greek Pantheon?


Ooooo.... I'll take Cthulhu.... What?
  • 0

#11 Lady Ayeipsia

Lady Ayeipsia

    Chimera

  • RvB Insider
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3402 posts
708
Senior Chief Petty Officer  Member Reputation
  • Favorite Ship:Kestrel
  • Race:Caldari

Posted 17 March 2015 - 01:02 PM

Ooooo.... I'll take Cthulhu.... What?


Fine.... No cthulhu... I'll just go back to worshipping Khorne.

What? Come on.... This is RvB. Podgoo for the podgoo God, wrecks for the wrecks throne or something like that.
  • 0

#12 Duo64

Duo64

    Inquisitor

  • Friend of RvB
  • PipPipPip
  • 25 posts
6
Recruit
  • Favorite Ship:Taranis
  • Race:Gallente

Posted 18 March 2015 - 02:02 AM

'Murica.
  • 0

#13 Shenanigansbus

Shenanigansbus

    The Bus

  • Friend of RvB
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1561 posts
200
Crewman 1st Class  Member Reputation
  • LocationTurn around...
  • Favorite Ship:Giant Taranis
  • Race:Gallente

Posted 18 March 2015 - 04:11 AM

Democracy is adorable...


  • 0

E2o8l.png


#14 Miner's Bane

Miner's Bane

    Rupture

  • Friend of RvB
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 251 posts
92
Crewman 3rd Class  Member Reputation
  • Favorite Ship:Tristan
  • Race:Gallente

Posted 18 March 2015 - 05:05 AM

I believe in a one man one vote system.

 

The CEO is the man and he gets the vote. The rest of you can fuck right off.


  • 0

#15 Catalyst XI

Catalyst XI

    Abaddon

  • Friend of RvB
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1534 posts
284
Crewman 1st Class  Member Reputation
  • LocationMontreal, Quebec
  • Favorite Ship:Space Potato
  • Race:Caldari

Posted 19 March 2015 - 11:10 PM

http://www.themittan...ama-intensifies

the epic gets even more epic.

so the ceo goes on a literal witch hunt, and kicks a corp he thinks are staging a coup. from the evidence provide tho it appears they were simply turncoats..... logs (provided in Reddit threat) show a bunch of disillusioned members trying to plan their next move and making jokes about staging a coup. this is a pretty big deal since this is appearently half of braves supers.... given theyre in the middle of getting fucked by pl, this is pretty much the end of brave sov unless pl relents which they might.

 

seem like a failure in leadership again, the alliance executor should have tried to reconcile with this corp given their strategic importance, but becasue of what seems like another clash of egos, the alliance executor simply kicked them.

 

its interesting that the response from the line members seems to be mostly apathetic or simply "lolw/e" maybe they all hit the koolaid too hard.


  • 0
Resident RvB bad

#16 Del DelVechio

Del DelVechio

    Fleet Scythe

  • Administrators
  • 6395 posts
1230
Lieutenant Junior Grade  Member Reputation
  • Location(Vegas Baby!)
  • Favorite Ship:Armored Car
  • Race:Caldari

Posted 19 March 2015 - 11:23 PM

Lobotomized teenagers in space.....
  • 0
Posted Image

#17 Jiny

Jiny

    Abaddon

  • RvB Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1754 posts
157
Crewman 2nd Class  Member Reputation
  • LocationCA
  • Favorite Ship:Kestrel
  • Race:Minmatar

Posted 20 March 2015 - 12:36 AM

Operation Frequent Wind...


  • 0

#18 Duo64

Duo64

    Inquisitor

  • Friend of RvB
  • PipPipPip
  • 25 posts
6
Recruit
  • Favorite Ship:Taranis
  • Race:Gallente

Posted 20 March 2015 - 02:29 AM

Spais sapp'n ma sentry
  • 0

#19 Scyleth

Scyleth

    Astarte

  • RvB Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 718 posts
90
Crewman 3rd Class  Member Reputation
  • LocationPerth, Australia
  • Favorite Ship:Moa
  • Race:Caldari

Posted 20 March 2015 - 07:37 AM


  • 1

#20 Jasper Sinclair

Jasper Sinclair

    Astarte

  • CEO
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 817 posts
177
Crewman 2nd Class  Member Reputation
  • LocationNew Hampshire, USA
  • Favorite Ship:USS Constitution
  • Race:Caldari

Posted 20 March 2015 - 11:09 AM

WTF was that?


  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users