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#41 Meisuko Liang

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 05:06 PM

As a pilot who boundary violated (once), I must say it was not intentional, but a consequence of trying to burn away faster than the geckos and other droes on my tail to reduce damage. With my overview sorted by distance, I was leading 2 enemy ships along the arena edge when I noticed that I had strayed, and immediately doglegged to the arena center.

But the boundary violation was not intentional but rather a case of oops.. get back in. It would be way easier if the darn boundary was actually visible, like a circle on my HUD (yes, I had it enabled to better see where things where in position to me.). A point in space like a MTU is not easy to keep track of when you're in the middle of a fight, juggling weapon range, speed, cap, reload, targets and trying to survive in a passive tanked speedster.

But I seriously doupt that anyone boundary violated as an intentional tactic.

 

Overall I had a ton of fun. Faction and Pirate ships and interdictors have gotten expensive, though. Maybe do a tournament with t1 hulls as variant? It would be easier for those not space rich.

Maybe make VNI 1 or two points more expensive. Also, maybe if one wanst to fine tune ship costs, double ship costs and available points, and then tweaking can be done in finer doses aka half increments.

A studio team which commentated in between could be fun, covering pauses. I quite enjoyed the captains having some airtime after the final.


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#42 Ophelia Yotosala

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 07:44 PM

Another thing half way through a match the next match can you already be getting ready to get to beacons .it was hard staying on time with the delay .i suggest alternate commentators .so when two are doing a match the other two could be already getting the fleets checked for next round .this would make my life easier and manga for sure along with keep it on time .mang was running out of things to talk about halfway through so less pauses between would help .thoughts??
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#43 Xan Drakov

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 07:58 PM

Another thing half way through a match the next match can you already be getting ready to get to beacons .it was hard staying on time with the delay .i suggest alternate commentators .so when two are doing a match the other two could be already getting the fleets checked for next round .this would make my life easier and manga for sure along with keep it on time .mang was running out of things to talk about halfway through so less pauses between would help .thoughts??

 

Easier option: Have a few people to manage the pre-game stuff alternating getting folk formed up and ready whilst the commentators just focus on commentating. CCP have a few (2?) ISD guys getting teams sorted out whilst the match before is run, we really should do the same. Those guys can just hand them off to the commentators when they're all set. Would help with feedback things to the players too as as a commentator you have other things to be doing really!


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#44 Mangala Solaris

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 10:03 PM

1) Im keeping it at 10 minutes per match.  We had matches this weekend that went past 5, and during the Spring Cup some that went the distance. Anything not 5 or 10, is just daft. And frankly 5 is daft as is it as it cuts the "show" aspect down even further, and when we do this again, I want the show to be as worth watching as YOUR fights are (I missed so many despite being 200km above the arena all weekend)

 

2) I will NOT being going 2 arenas.  Majority of the time clean up was fast, the stream downtime was basically down to "running out of shit to say", teams derping or whatever.

Normally I can talk for England, just not 4 days after Vegas! Now that I have been a host I have a TON of self criticism regarding that, which is going to help me prepare.  Going to two just adds an extra element of nuisance (relocating at least 4 camera"bots", ref, possible boundary crew etc, just another distraction (Seriously as host I still do a stupid amount of work, mostly as I dont trust anyone else to do it - with good reason!) all because of one or two times the arena wasnt cleaned. Seriously, the majority of delays were down to stupid shit not related to drones left in the arena ;)

I dont want a tournament that is just about the fights. I want a show! Hence one arena, hence downtime between matches with chat on air and so on. You all get to do something to win my isk, let me do something while you do :D

 

3) Related to the above. Teams that have played and are knocked out, or waiting 30+ for a match, they WILL be roped in to certain duties. Be it boundary stuff, clean up and so on. They will never do market runs. Thats just to much of an intel thing and I want to maintain a certain air of competition between the teams, including meta stuff like market intel. This may be a purple event, but its not designed to hold your hands and kiss your cuts and bruises when you get hurt ;)

 

4) Hulls with faction variants, will be counted towards the 2 maximum of a hull. ie Want to bring 2x VNI, you cannot bring any vexors.  ie Want to bring a caracal and a CNI, thats fine. whereas 2 caras and a cni would get you yelled at for being illiterate.

 

5) I MAY up the cost of faction hulls by a point. Then again, I may not. 

 

6) Current points setup, I havent really seen much feedback on this?  My view is I like it, it worked, it can stay, with a few tweaks to the ship rules themselves.

 

7) Sam already covered why T2 logi are remaining in the format. No point me repeating such a great response.

 

8) Certainly want a staff, BUT you cant be wishy washy about it. You commit to the whole weekend or none at all. And frankly if I think you would be better flying in the thing than helping run it, guess what I would prefer you do (I have a mental list of people I love seeing in events such as this and it increased by a large amount this weekend!)?

 

9) Location. Was far out this time, mostly as I fancied a change. It will never be held in the core systems of RvB, mostly due to the complete stupidity that would result and the many people banned from RvB that weekend due to annoying me :D

 

10) ECM, those who used it/faced it. Thoughts please, it was a new inclusion to my format this time. I am intrigued.

 

11) GECKOS. Gone.

 

12) Genos sets. I am leaning towards a removal there as well. Persuade me.

 

13) Bans.  I was toying with the idea of them for the whole event, however I am thinking just keeping them at the same place I extended them to yesterday. Again persuade me.

 

14) Marketing/logistics. Abusing UPS is on my list, as is all you RvB industry types providing ships to the teams. Announcing the system considerably earlier is going to happen. I was just wary of putting it there and then finding us wardecced and having to deal with that crap in the middle of a fight. This weekend disabused me of that idea.

 

15) Boundary issue. God you people like to focus on 1 thing dont you. Last time it was interlopers (thanks Azami btw), this time its this.

Understandable for some people of course.  Anyway, lessening the time allowed out is a start.

A "crew" is an option, however ABC's are on the list of allowed stuff, and then when flown by RvBers, some random in the event, will messup and attack the wrong thing. Or the guys in the "crew" will think there was a violation when there wasnt, or will hit shoot at the same time the ship gets back in.

Personally I think the onus to watch boundary should be on the pilots in the fight.  Go outside for 10 seconds max, ship is DQd, other team gets points awarded to value of that. Points that could cost  their team a crucial victory.

 

16) Id like to not clutter the centre too much. In the SC we had at one stage 8 BS in the centre of the arena at the 0 point. The meta was much more varied in the SC, so more teams came in at 0 and manuevering around BS that dont show on their overviews etc just caused enough issues for us to rethink the clutter. I'd like to minimise that as much as possible. (Hence if we went with a "crew", theyd have to be at cardinal directions around the arena.

 

17) Arena is to be extended to 125/250 exactly like AT/SCL/NEO.

 

18) Advertising. I am only one man! I would love to see more advertising on the next one. I have a guy who does my art already, but more of a community push, both for signups that wont flake and generally to get them hyped on it. I'd love for teams to be getting themselves supporters etc. 

Would be ideal to tie this into something with EVEBet. Even the possibility of getting them to run bets on the matches? Just a straight up bet winner maybe? Fucked if I know how betting would work though.

 

19) Bio locks the ships for the UI.

He sat at the arena edge in 2 BS. He found that better for him than last time. His camera"bots" caught the actual shots. I do get the reasoning though as it would make the distance numbers look more "true to life" for stream viewers.

 

20) Top down view (pref in a mini window somewhere). I'll leave that up to Bio re viability, but I hope it would be doable? But I wouldnt want to tune in to anything solely showing things from high enough up that we see boxes. Those sorts of eve videos are SHITE, lets not make more of them. I like action shots and camerabots doing their thing. Got to think about this from the pov of more than just us as viewers, the average miner joe or bob newbie or doug bittervet (who is sick of zoomed out vidya :D), so much of what this event is is about the show and how well it entertains.

 

21) We do use a points system by the way (the points value of each ship is the points they are worth in a match).

Just I need to learn to keep more legible handwritten notes. Luckily my secretary could understand most of them. I'll get them onto challonge where they belong once I finish getting the matches highlighted and on to Youtube.

 

22) Would love to see more off the wall setups, even mallers!

 

23) Arena centre was a can named ARENA BEACON. The overview set I sent to captains even included it on the Tyrian trophy setup.

 

 

So thats a stream of answers. Take them as you will, but god im sick of looking at twitch so may have been a bit snarkier than I intended!

 

Keep the feedback rolling in guys while this is all still fresh in our minds.


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#45 Mangala Solaris

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 10:08 PM

tldr.

 

I want this to continue. I want this to be a show. I want folks who tune in to see RvB doing one of the "purer" forms of eve pvp, and doing it well. I want it to be a great advert for us. And I want us to be at the forefront of player created content that isnt big wars, isnt ganking etc etc. It has to be a complete package to achieve that.


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#46 Del DelVechio

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 10:11 PM

You all get to do something to win my isk, let me do something while you do 

 

Most important sentence in the post. Its your party.  Run it how you want...if people don't like your rules, let them organize one themselves.....see how much work it is......

 

Del

 


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#47 Corniel Azizora

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 10:37 PM

Here is a little suggestion to help balance the odds and improve different concepts.

 

Implement the use of flagships:

Flag ships can be any faction ship fitted with t1 to t2 or any t1 ship fitted with faction mods (not obligatory but has the possibility to use them). Flag ships can only be used once per tournament. Once someone as used say, a VNI they cannot use them again. Only one of the flagship can be fielded.

 

If a team decides to use a faction ship and not flag it. They need to count points according to a multiple of it's grade.

 

Frigate = x1

Destroyer = x1.5

Cruiser = x2

Battlecruiser = x2.5

 

This way if a team wishes to field 2 VNIs they can, but they would basically be able to field only 3 people since, it is more advantageous to flag your VNI, pay the regular amount of points, and then match it with something else. In addition teams that flag a ship cannot use said ship again in a tournament as a flagship. It promotes variety and newer concepts

 

It's more work for the management team since they need to calculate points more in depth, but IMO if you start getting teams ready 1 match ahead of time it gives them a little bit of time to chill and relax on the safespot. Say when fight A starts, have Fight B warp to the safe right away, when fight A is over, take 2-5 min to clean field and land Fight B, etc... Much faster cycle less dead zones on the commentary, and potentially more fights overall, which is what people are here to watch! The little screen with the planet was nice, but it sorta gotten boring after 2 days of staying 90% at a little animation then getting a short fight. It would prevent delays, that potentially impedes on the schedule (even though it was pretty much on time) but it will prevent the "okay we will be ready in just a few more minutes"


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#48 Vash Aideron

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 10:43 PM

10) ECM, those who used it/faced it. Thoughts please, it was a new inclusion to my format this time. I am intrigued.

 

 

We attempted to use A BB to jam geckos/logi frigs. I found that ewar in general is pretty negligible against both forms of the Drone meta we saw, even thought i got jams off it just wasnt enough mitigation of dps for the amount of potential dps we lost by making that choice

 

What about some form of using the Flagship mechanic

 

 


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#49 Samuel Vokan

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:02 PM

I took out some of the points you wanted feedback on:

12) Genos sets. I am leaning towards a removal there as well. Persuade me.

This list covers it pretty clearly:

Slave sets cost 2-3 billion and give a significant advantage = banned

Snake sets cost 2-3 billion and give a significant advantage = banned

Crystal sets cost 2-3 billion and give a significant advantage = banned

Genolutions cost 4 billion and give a significant advantage = allowed?

 

13) Bans.  I was toying with the idea of them for the whole event, however I am thinking just keeping them at the same place I extended them to yesterday. Again persuade me.

We all know EVE players and we all know 'balancing'. Truth is there will ALWAYS be a current meta, a popular ship type or arrangement within the points that becomes the norm. Banning/nerfing last tourney's FOTM does nothing at all, you just replace one evil with another and you can't predict what people will fly next time, you will spend the whole time one step behind, always reacting to last events issues. Banning is the solution to this as it allows instant reaction to negating the current meta at the time. Sure you'll see the same ships often, but at least teams have more choice than fly the current meta/be at a potential disadvantage.

 

Cost or logistics won't be an issue either as gecko's are gone and teams can be informed well in advance.


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#50 Lishanna

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:05 AM

18) Advertising. I am only one man! I would love to see more advertising on the next one. I have a guy who does my art already, but more of a community push, both for signups that wont flake and generally to get them hyped on it. I'd love for teams to be getting themselves supporters etc. 

Would be ideal to tie this into something with EVEBet. Even the possibility of getting them to run bets on the matches? Just a straight up bet winner maybe? Fucked if I know how betting would work though.

 

I'm willing to assist with art if needed.

Tieing the tournament in with EVEBet would certainly increase the amount of viewers, i know i watched every tourney game i bet on in any case. However i think adding only the "bet on tournament winner" will not attract as many people as the individual betting on teams will. I do believe there would need to be a strict schedule for all the teams playing though, as the bets are supposed to be closed before the actual matches start. 

 


 


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#51 tommyork

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 06:02 AM

Haven't got the time to go through all 3 pages, so I suppose this is just a feedback post:

 

A. Restriction on Costly Stuffs, Price Consideration:

I enjoy this tournament very much and my team was super !! Though we lost.  Maybe next time we can choose our own team members? so that friendships build up during this tournament can extend :)

 

 

I do agree that Gecko should be banned.  Not because of its fire power, but of the price.  I know many people are wealthy, but a tournament like this means you will most likely to have at least 2 ships per player, and may even up to 6~7 ships in extreme cases, blown up !!!

 

It is kind of a burden even for the most wealthy players.

 

Likewise, I would suggest some kind of banning / limiting for the use of Gecko, Faction Ships, T2s for the next tournament.  Target should be < maybe 80mil per ship, and 200mil for the full fleet of 5?  Total banning may not be necessary, but perhaps some kind of restriction (isk restriction maybe?)

 

B. Bans Seems Unnecessary:

I am not too sure about the ship banning rules... it give some pressure, since we need to fit up extra ships to replace the "potential" banning of some ships, this is practically uneasy.  Unless the next tournament is near BHQ / RHQ where people can quickly get what they need in case of their primary ships are banned, I think banning may give people some headache in terms of logistics and being able to meet the tight match schedule.

 

C. Relaxation on Implants:

On the other hand, since no podding, I think limiting use of pirate implants may not be necessary.

 

All I am thinking is on the cost side of the event.  Keep it cheap and competitive, and many players will enjoy more without hurting the wallet :)

 

 

P.S. I was lucky to have a very rich teammate to sponsor for all my ships in my tournament, so I am OK.  I would feel hurt if I have to pay for all the 4 lost VNI with Geckos fitted if they were paid by myself (some 600 mil??? omg)  :P kekeke

 


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#52 Panda101

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 08:03 AM

I am happy with all those comments mang, its good you are taking on so much feedback. One thing i did see was the boundray violation (sorry) if they do break the 10 second rule and the ref states they are disqualified, the pilot maybe be focused on the fight that they will not be paying attention to the local chat, and thus disengage. Thus i feel you should still have a second team ready to engage them unless they leave the arena. 


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#53 Rasmus Forlorn

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 08:44 AM

I really enjoyed the Tyrian Trophy and am looking forward to many more tournaments like this one was. A big THANK YOU to our organizers!!

 

Most ideas I have area already typed, so I just add the one that I do not yet see mentioned:

 

Please put passive targeters on the commentator / referee ships. This being my first tournament, I got confused by the commentator Imicus yellowboxing me (which was a ship allowed in the tourney composition, not like the BS that I had removed from my overview).

 

Not that it would have made a huge difference, but then I spent some seconds trying to figure out why, targeted him back, got engaged (so forgot about having him in my targets) and in the middle of a fight 1 misclick is fast to happen for a newbro like me: shooting the cameraman, probably not a good idea :)

 

 

[Re the toy pony of this thread: wouldn't it be possible to mount Auto Targeters on the BS at the centre and lock the 10 ships as they warp into the arena? Or is just noone training Advanced Target Management up to V?]

 


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#54 Xan Drakov

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 08:56 AM

I have an essay of feedback in my head, particularly regarding ship points, but haven't had the time yet. I wasn't able to give it that much attention in the run up for the TT because all my efforts were focused on the AT. More than happy to sit down with you for an hour before the next one and basically theorycraft setups out for you from points structures on the fly (which is fairly easy to do in this context when your used to doing it for 100pt 12 mans) so you can SEE your rule play out to some extent before hand, if you want it. It would move you out of the realm of reactive points changes into building a points structure that gives you the tournament you want. Sure I'll miss stuff I'm human but I'm confident we could build something bloody well balanced.


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#55 Gorski Car

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 09:01 AM

Don't increase the point value for all faction cruisers. It's really only the VNI thats overpowered for 10 points.

 

Don't act like you are innocent Samuel. Both team boundary violated in that match and both team managed to get back within 30 seconds. No need to be salty.


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#56 Mangala Solaris

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 09:41 AM

I really enjoyed the Tyrian Trophy and am looking forward to many more tournaments like this one was. A big THANK YOU to our organizers!!

 

Most ideas I have area already typed, so I just add the one that I do not yet see mentioned:

 

Please put passive targeters on the commentator / referee ships. This being my first tournament, I got confused by the commentator Imicus yellowboxing me (which was a ship allowed in the tourney composition, not like the BS that I had removed from my overview).

 

Not that it would have made a huge difference, but then I spent some seconds trying to figure out why, targeted him back, got engaged (so forgot about having him in my targets) and in the middle of a fight 1 misclick is fast to happen for a newbro like me: shooting the cameraman, probably not a good idea :)

 

 

[Re the toy pony of this thread: wouldn't it be possible to mount Auto Targeters on the BS at the centre and lock the 10 ships as they warp into the arena? Or is just noone training Advanced Target Management up to V?]

 

Tbh you're at fault if you locked the commentator. My recommended overview did not show them.

 

The ref BS isnt there to lock all 10 ships or be a cameraman.  Thats what the 2 megas on the arena edge were for ;)


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#57 Mangala Solaris

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 09:46 AM

Haven't got the time to go through all 3 pages, so I suppose this is just a feedback post:

 

A. Restriction on Costly Stuffs, Price Consideration:

I enjoy this tournament very much and my team was super !! Though we lost.  Maybe next time we can choose our own team members? so that friendships build up during this tournament can extend :)

 

 

 

I will never allow teams to choose their own pilots. 

 

Teams need to be balanced - as much as I can do that with the tools I have at hand (and I manage to do okay until the inevitable drop outs occur, at all player skill levels). 

 

A system that let people pick (basically a seppo sports style draft), would just end up with a few "uber" teams and then everyone else. And tbh would you want to face a team of yng/sam/cosmo/tele/a.n.other ?


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#58 Mangala Solaris

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 10:11 AM

Flagship idea is interesting in and off itself.


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#59 Zemo Walden

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 01:20 PM

Maybe we could do two separate Tournaments or even alternate between two styles, like say 1 where people can use Faction and Navy ships and another that is purely T1 BC and down with no High Grade implants. Not everyone can afford to field 200m ships every round. Could be like a mini tournament with lower prizes but could still be just as fun with T1 only ships and probably more competitive. A lot of people have said about cost and maybe limiting cost. Pretty much everyone could afford to enter a T1 only Tourney as we lose them day in day out in RvB. This would aso put less pressure on team captains paying for stuff and forcing (as such) people to fly expensive ships to win and be more beneficial to new players just starting in Tournament style playing.


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#60 Master Broski

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 02:39 PM

Flagships and a t1 only tourney sound amazing, more work, but they could be very fun and that is the main thing ;p


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