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From Spring Cup to Autumn Shield - Feedback


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#1 Mangala Solaris

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 05:23 PM

As you will know, we just got done with the RvB Spring Cup - the most intense event I have ever run, even eclipsing Ganked 100 - and I am already looking at a sequel, to be held in the Autumn (Fall to you Seppos).

 

However, I want feedback on the SC from everyone who took part or watched it live on stream. Good and bad feedback is welcome. Do not whine. If you missed it, catch up on Day One here and Day Two here before offering your own opinions (There will be a test).

 

Note that I will listen, and I will discuss interesting feedback, but that as the Events "boss" in these parts, I may well ignore you all, however well put feedback offers less of a chance of that.


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#2 Daneel Trevize

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 05:48 PM

You'll possibly want a spectator squad or 2 of anti-interruption (suicidal) ECM & ranged tier3s. Unless you can avoid suspect flags occuring. They could double up as boundary enforcers, after the 30secs are declared up.

 

Perhaps with the 5man scale, only allow 2 of each hull type, rather than 3? Keeping it to cruisers and below, no bombers, this should still allow variety and tone down the unbalanced-weapon-system-of-the-year issue.

 

That or have bans in the 2nd round and beyond (quaters, semis?), not just the final.


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#3 MoriartheChosen

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 08:21 PM

I was thinking that you guys could have some other prizes that you give out for round one, round two, etc.,  that don't effect the actual points competition.  You had MVP, and the commentators were kind of coming up with things like this on the fly, like, "I will give 20mil to a battle noctis pilot." 

 

It would provide some extra announcer content and the judging should be very simple. (Just nominate two people who pick.) The awards would be relatively small and themed to the category. 

 

Some ideas

  • Greatest escape -- gets some quafe
  • Most creative fleet comp -- would require an award the team can share
  • Best suicide tackle -- gets a tricked out slasher with some drugs in cargo
  • Worst fit -- gets a container full of modules no one ever uses, or a shield tanked punisher
  • Best use of e-war -- tricked out crucifier with something cool in the cargo bay
  • Best ship name -- idk
  • Fastest kill in a match -- idk
  • Best tank -- Neuts?

This list could go on and on, but I think you guys could pick some good ones, and after a match it would add to, and give direction to, the commentary.  i.e.  "Moriar's decision to bring tracking disruption instead of webs against a team that has been flying Caracals all day puts him in the running for worst fit.  And, oh my god, are those defender missiles?!" 

 

Plus people would get some recognition for the little things.

 


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#4 Dracoth Simertet

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 09:48 PM

Is it worth looking at holding the tournament on the test server or perhaps getting some CCP support like the SCL guys have done? No idea if the SCL guys asked if they could run on TQ and at a guess I suspect CCP probably told them no way, but no harm in asking what if anything they can do. If it means a proper arena with a proper bubble it could be worth making some compromises.  

 

Less clutter in the middle of the arena would be handy. 

Ways of dealing with bads turning up would also be good, more dishonour falcons please. 

More random stuff to fill the dead air between matches Jita cam or just some general RvB pew pew

Also can we get CCP Scottish Voice Guy to record something like this for us? Opening Intro, day 2 opening intro and pre final intro would be pretty darn cool. 

 

 

 

Having said that if you turned around and said we are doing the same again I'd be pretty happy about that. 

 

o7

Drac

 

 


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#5 Mangala Solaris

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 09:54 PM

I have a thing about not running this on SISI. Yes TQ has its own perils - as we have seen - but for me its truer to the spirit of what I want to get out of these/people to get out of these. Additionally, and I mean this will all due fondness for everyone, I think it would be pretty hard to get the average eve player on to SISI, keeping up a training regimen, understanding how mirrors can work and so on...

 

 

But otherwise all good feedback guys, keep it coming.


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#6 Vash Aideron

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 10:21 PM

I know it may scare some people off but how about making contestants pay a deposit or something to the extent to show a bit more commitment to actually showing up


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#7 Kierowca Tankowca

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 01:50 AM

Fleet of security guards. They can watch the tourny and kill WTs if they show up.

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#8 Iyacia Cyric'ai

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 03:47 AM

I have a few suggestions:

 

Regarding security:

Option 1 - More ECM Security Guards 

Option 2 - Host the tourney in a dead end high-sec system so the entry gate can be camped by security

 

Regarding the tournament itself:

Suggestion 1 - If the next tourney could be hosted at a US/AU TZ that might allow for a different pool of participants. If this tourney is an ongoing event series than perhaps keep rotating TZs between EU, Asia Pacific and US?

 

Suggestion 2 - Not sure how you would police it but a no pirate implants rule would be great.

 

Suggestion 3 - Variety is life. Perhaps allow up to T1 Battleships (17 Points). This allows for flagship setups like 1x Battleship (or Command Ship), 1 x Cruiser + 3 x Frigs. Obviously keeping the 1 local repper only rule to avoid incidents of perma-tanking. Following the ATX points system this would be.

  • Battleship - 17
  • Command Ship - 16
  • Strategic Cruiser – 16
  • Recon Ship – 14
  • Battlecruiser, Navy Faction – 14
  • Battlecruiser (Including Gnosis) – 13
  • Cruiser, Faction - 12

To add some extra strategic element, perhaps make a pseudo-flagship rule where strategic cruisers, command ships and battleships cannot be re-fielded if lost in a match (still no deadspace/faction mods allowed - so not quite a flagship in the Alliance Tournament sense).


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#9 ringusworm

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 03:49 AM

+1 Deposit
+1 Security( ECM Scorps & Rail Naga)


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#10 Iyacia Cyric'ai

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 04:03 AM

Also I don't think bans should be a prize. Both teams should be allowed to ban for finals or not at all. If one of the finals teams is undefeated, perhaps their reward should be that they need to lose 3 out of 4 matches to lose (an extra life essentially) rather than 2 out of 3 matches. This balances the fact that the winner of the losers bracket got a second life already.


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#11 Sharrow Vatuiel

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 04:05 AM

As you will know, we just got done with the RvB Spring Cup - the most intense event I have ever run, even eclipsing Ganked 100 - and I am already looking at a sequel, to be held in the Autumn (Fall to you Seppos).


I must point out that this is a global game some of us play it in the Southern hemisphere Mang, making the Spring Cup the Autumn Cup already, and visa versa, though in fact, in Australia we officially start winter on the 1st of June, so it was a Winter Cup for us...

That seasonal confusion out of the way, I loved the event and I think more like it would be great.

I support the idea of some sort of token deposit that might prompt people to check their diaries and ensure they can make it. Only two people from my teams original squad made the field, and while our final team composition was great and the volunteers who stepped up were life savers, the stress of finding new players in the days leading up and then, even worse, of being 15 minutes out from the game minus two people who hadn't even eve mailed us tell us they couldn't make it was not pleasant.

I realise that we need to balance this with accessibility so perhaps the deposit should be refunded if you show, so there is no financial disincentive.
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#12 Cmdr FlipFlop

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 04:42 AM

Fleet of security guards. They can watch the tourny and kill WTs if they show up.

Sent from Slot 6-Tapatalk Implant

 

I was trying to do this first with arty ruppy and then with ewar jamming frig, but i got more agro from our guys than from the WT`s .....it worked like this... warp to spectator spot....get convoed...told to leave and only show up in shuttle....so then just as I warp away the WT would show up..... i almost pop that ranis once and got a jam later on another WT but then I gave up.


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#13 Mangala Solaris

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 08:01 AM

Re: Timezones. If I had more assistant bodies that could cover ref work while I was asleep (Ophelia did a great job), if we had more publicity inside RvB of the event/more folks interested from those TZs, you off server TZ folks could guarantee several hundred stream viewers and so on, then I would be more than happy to run one later. Same as any event really, but its rare that you off TZ people ever come along and say "running an event in x TZ, what do I need Uncle Mangala?".  I mean in all the planning work, not once did any off TZ guys bring this up as a concern (beyond you crims anyway).

 

Additionally is there up to 100 active/interested pilots across late Seppo & Crim tzs? Thats a key aspect of my timezone choice as well. Hard to work with those timezone groups if they are not working with me here. I mean look at the SC, we got around 90 guys to sign up from all our TZs, around 20 of whom either didnt show or ended up dropping out as apparently commitment is hard, can you guarantee the same + enough willing last minuters to make a full TZ switch a thing? (Euros wont want to be up into the small hours on a Monday AM for example, as I can tell just from a quick glance at the kb between midnight and DT monday.)

 

Was the exact issue the times it started as if so, it was designed to run through EVE's prime on a weekend to attract the most stream viewers to show us off in the best possible light, unfortunately that happens to be perfect for me - less than optimal for the some of you (especially dirty crims).  I will admit even I think the 14.00 kick off on the first day was too early though.

 

 

Re: Host.

Next go round I want to be the host for this event live on stream and comms, and I do not function well after about 1am. I start to babble.  However it is a consideration, and if needs be we could run it later in the evenings (start it in server prime) and split it over multiple weekends. so less matches, but in a better overall time section. Say from 19.00/20.00 EVE onwards. Message overall is help me help your timezones, do not ever just expect me to do that on my own. Give me an incentive by being involved and committed - to the events at hand and generally this community overall - (and boy some of you were so thats a first step!) and I will reciprocate.

 

 

Re: Defence fleets, good idea.

However I am sure we can NOT be at war for the future ones. Then we just need to make sure we have willing suiciders around to handle neutrals who crash.  And honestly we only had a couple of occasions of that this weekend, it wasn't as bad as y'all make out. They added some flavour. Also lessons in KR clearing ftw!

 

 

Re: Autumn Name. Only the season it is in the servers country matters so lol Shaggy ;D I am willing to take suggestions though, as the Autumn Shield will fall around out 5th Birthday so maybe the name wont be used and something more appropriate will be.

 

 

Re: Team sizes and no shows. I'd want to move to a pool of 8 players per team, which should cover for dropouts, TZ availability, people thinking that committing to something I run isn't important (it is btw). Still sticking to the 5v5 layout as thats perfect for streams (and this is all about RvB publicity first, improving players second, prizes last)

Again this relies on word of mouth/publicity/interested parties drumming up support in advance and getting folks interested. The fact that so many teams had a fair spread of SP should be good enough an advertising tool especially if the "younger" guys involved stick around and tell the next generation of their heroics etc

In fact a pool of players per team takes the required numbers up to at least 140... And we're back to timezone issues again.

No shows just get barred from any future events that I run and control.

 

 

Re: Deposit. Thats an idea.  Small one per pilot and if they show they get it back after their first match flown/being on the bench for their if their captain confirms. If they do not it goes into a prize pool.

 

 

Re: Prizes. Had a lot of top loading, how about more prizes for scoring most points on a given day, shinies team fielded etc?

 

 

Re: Implants. If someone could write us an auth tool that lets me/a team of assistants check implants and ensure folks dont use more than 3% hardwires/learners as per AT etc then that would be the first big meta change.

I would love to hear from teams if they had shiny implants and so on versus how well they did in the overall scheme of things.

 

 

Re: Ship meta. No to BS at this stage, maybe once we've ran it a few more times. I like the idea of a BC/CS/Strat Cruiser flag ship though - again using the AT rule for those.   Although that does then run the risk of boosting...

Ship meta will alter next go round anyway, points will change (im open to a slight rise to 35 after seeing a couple of near misses with points...), bombers/interdictors/navy cruisers will come in. Holding off on Pirate cruisers as I want to see the meta with Navy first, as there is enough variation between them and their roles etc.

 

 

Re: Bans. Frank already made a good suggestion and its one I am putting into the evolving rule set.  In the finals instead of Winners bracket = bans only (inclusive bans by the way not exclusive - if that wasnt clear), Winners bracket will get to ban in match 1 & 3, team that came up from losers bracket gets to ban in match 2. I wont ever change to a best of 4, it sounds weird let alone I have never heard of a best of anything using even numbers. (And I truly dont want to have to go to points deciding it when both teams win 2 or some other multiple of 2).


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#14 Charles Burger

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:47 AM

I thought it was totally awesome. Not really anything major I'd change for next time.

 

Definitely stick to TQ. Playing on sisi would just be boring. No consequences = no risk = no adrenaline. Says the guy who came up with the idea of using 80 mil faction frigs :)

 

I wouldn't be a fan of fielding 5 from a pool of 8 players. It would (a) encourage only the higher SP pilots to be fielded leaving the newer players sitting on the bench, and (b ) people would commit the time to the event and end up ship spinning while their friends fight. No fun. This punishes the loyal, reliable guys who DO turn up.

 

Deposit may be a good idea but how much? Too big would discourage / prevent newer players from entering and too small would make it meaningless for rich players.

 

Maybe allow BCs at a high point cost, so you could field say a Drake, 2 AF and 2 dessie, or a Hurricane, cruiser and 3 frigs? We could test some setups on sisi to balance it. That might be a solution to the no-shows too, if one guy doesn't show up just upgrade a cruiser to a BC.


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#15 Iyacia Cyric'ai

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 10:09 AM

What about hosting the tournament in our nullsec space?

 

Edit: On second thought would make stand-ins difficult to just pick up from regular RvB space, and I don't think the tourney would have gone as well as it did without those people that stood in for the missing people.


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#16 Mangala Solaris

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 10:22 AM

What about hosting the tournament in our nullsec space?

 

Edit: On second thought would make stand-ins difficult to just pick up from regular RvB space, and I don't think the tourney would have gone as well as it did without those people that stood in for the missing people.

 

Exactly.  

Also becomes a huge logistical pain, and since we used a fair few neuts too we'd have to continually juggle docking access etc and then you need gate camps that are paying attention (and we all know rvbers cannot tackle on gates for shit :D) to stop folks coming in, and then you run the whole super large fleets come crashing by (and I aint defending against that).  

High sec, TQ, works. We know it, we proved it.  

 

 

Edit: Stop focusing on the interlopers. We had 2 occasions of it, 1 per day. 1st time was an opportunistic red fed war target. Not one of the several hundred Blue war targets.  2nd time on Day two was some randoms that scanned the site down, and abused the fact some dudes had uncleared killrights. At totally the wrong time - lol during finals.  The way some of you worry youd think every match had it :D


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#17 Iyacia Cyric'ai

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 11:23 AM


Re: Ship meta. No to BS at this stage, maybe once we've ran it a few more times. I like the idea of a BC/CS/Strat Cruiser flag ship though - again using the AT rule for those.   Although that does then run the risk of boosting...

Ship meta will alter next go round anyway, points will change (im open to a slight rise to 35 after seeing a couple of near misses with points...), bombers/interdictors/navy cruisers will come in. Holding off on Pirate cruisers as I want to see the meta with Navy first, as there is enough variation between them and their roles etc.

 

I think 30 points is plenty. But regarding the risk of boosting, unlike implants, you can tell if a BC/CS/SC is running ganglinks very easily by ship scanning and from the graphics emitted from the modules. Boosting is only an issue with command ships. A normal BC or a strategic cruiser (which needs to select the boosting sub-system which gimps its combat capabilities immensely) can't fit a ganglink without significant sacrifices, and given the limited points, the ships benefiting from the boosts would at most be a single cruiser and a bunch of t1 frigates. The revamped command ships however can fit a two links with very little sacrifice to their combat and tanking statistics and should be worth more than 16 points. I wouldn't be surprised if the point cost for Command Ships in the next Alliance Tournament gets increased either.


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#18 Mangala Solaris

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 11:24 AM

Re: Boosting. Didnt think of that. Good point.


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#19 MoriartheChosen

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 12:01 PM

Adding BCs and T3s would offer variety, but I think it could also discourage new people. Most of my team could not fly T3, and I know at least 2 of us could not fly BC. It might also be harder to find subs to fly those ships.

Bigger ships also emphasize skill points, imo, instead of emphasizing community participation. We had to take sp into consideration even in cruiser down. But on the other hand you could say the same thing about T2 logi.

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#20 Dracoth Simertet

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 12:19 PM

How about we increase the number of ships from 5 to lets say 8 for example but don't have a massive increase in total points encouraging people to bring more Frigates and Destroyers. Should give lower skill point players more of a chance to compete and have a useful purpose. 

 

I'm not keen on adding larger ships or T3's, keeping it cruiser down gives us a unique and very RvB flavour.

 

I also thought the suggestion of holding it in a dead end high sec system was a really good one

 

o7

Drac 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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