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Possible RVB doctrine fleet fits


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#1 Owl_Stripes

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 11:30 PM

A few of the FCs have been discussing the importance of doctrine fleet fits for members to train up to. I also know that one of the things we worry about in RvB is that we are new players to vet players, and it is hard to get in a ship that is a set fit for some time. This is why I suggest a doctrine fit for vets, and new players both that can be trained to in a short time, and worked on in a long time for the vets. I believe that having doctrine fits will help the FCs to better learn to fc for later careers in EVE as well as have a better experience and time in RvB.

 

I would myself like to see other responses on this issue, and see what the members would like to see. This will not only help us to see how you all feel about this but at the same time give the FCs a view of how you feel about this yourself.

 

Thank you for your input

 

Owl

 

I would like to move this topic to general members after we get some FCs input.


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#2 Exile10364

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 12:42 AM

in my experience trying to run true doctrines doesn't work too well. however running a "theme" tends to work better.  Such as if you want to run a talwar fleet, give your guys some options on what to fly.  so i usually word it as talwars are my first choice if you cant do a talwar bring a condor or kestrel with LMs, if you cant do that bring Logi long points and on down through your choices.  not sure if this helps you much but this is the approach ive had the most success with.   

 


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#3 Northern Misfit

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 02:54 AM

I honestly have only seen 2 successful doctrines in RvB, and I use the word loosely. Armor BS for the uni pos bash and Talwars for bni. Both fleets had options for those who couldn't fly a specific hull. I have added Talwars to the war hangar, I would love to add drake spiders (can't remember what they're really called) and maybe rml caracals. Just haven't worked that out.
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#4 alphastarpilot

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 03:07 AM

1. Talwar and Logi Burst - Light skirmish kiting fleet, cheap.

 

2. Sentry spider tanking Vexor fleet - Medium skirmish close range fleet, cheap.

 

3. Armor BS Fleet (preferably Amarr) - Heavy Combat Medium Range fleet, expensive.

 

3 Good doctrines for all types of combat.

 

Now the problem is making people fly the right ships, newer players excluded.


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#5 Owl_Stripes

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 03:13 AM

1. Talwar and Logi Burst - Light skirmish kiting fleet, cheap.

 

2. Sentry spider tanking Vexor fleet - Medium skirmish close range fleet, cheap.

 

3. Armor BS Fleet (preferably Amarr) - Heavy Combat Medium Range fleet, expensive.

 

3 Good doctrines for all types of combat.

 

Now the problem is making people fly the right ships, newer players excluded.

 

Thanks Alpha I new I could count on your input.


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#6 Louis Robichaud

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 04:03 AM

A few good "loose" doctrines are exactly what RvB needs (and can use).  For example, I can't use amar BS but I can use Gallente, so I can operate in that fleet.

 

I think one of the things that would help with these concepts is "what should a similar ship be able to do".   For example, for a talwar fleet you want "X speed, X agility, X range".  Alternatively, recommendations on what ships could (or look like they could but really can't so shouldn't be sued) replace the central ship.  For example, is a cormorant a good alternative for a talwar fleet?  (is it fast enough?).  Can an arbitrator hang out with the vexors in the spider tank fleet? (Is is tough enough?).  etc etc.


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#7 Mangala Solaris

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 11:05 AM

Now the problem is making people fly the right ships, newer players excluded.

 

Never try to MAKE RvBers do anything - believe me they push back hard. Remember you have people here who came here to GET AWAY from being told what to fly & when.

 

You have to lead with the carrot, not the stick ;)

 

For example DONT make a fleet that simply says "VEXOR FLEET, only this stuff allowed", and expect people to join right away.  Give them some notice - corp mail will be good with maybe a reminder on the day you want to do it the first time - and as part of that, say "first x people will get their ships for free".

 

Believe me it works.  

 

If you are too poor to do that (and seriously anyone intelligent enough to FC should NEVER be poor for long), then the usual "bring your own stuff like I want, get kills, best killer in this fleet gets a prize" (even a faction frig is good enough) can often do the trick.  Doesnt have to be that way everytime, but as an incentive for early attempts.

Hell, the only reason talwars worked in the BNI war was I provided hundreds of the bloody things, plus every support frig I wanted with the setup. Sometimes you just got to do it that way, provide all the tools to make a setup work the first couple of times (especially if its in a war with a group in a terrible market area as we arent letting the locals restock as we keep killing them :D) without having to wait while people go buy stuff (I get impatient easily).

 

If you do not want to do the above (prize or free stuff), then its all about how you word your mails, sugar over salt. Use persuasion - again something a good people handler/FC should have.  

 

And then of course the biggest thing regarding doctrines in RvB, using them against the other side may very well cause drama if there isnt an FC willing to think about how to deal with it (those people should either learn or biomass).  So yes you get a fleet to do something, but then do not actually get a fight.

 

I have found the best time to use them is in wars - the recent VoC war would have been a great time for doctrine minded FC's top break out the fits etc - as we have seen in EUNI/BNI etc People become much more willing to be organised into a unit instead of a mob when we purple up to kick someone in the face with our jackboots than when its kicking each other in the face with our beach sandals on.


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#8 Charles Burger

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 12:56 PM

Yep, giving out the ships is the best thing to do. You can ask for the surviving ones back at the end, so you can use them again next time. If you're broke then ask for a sponsor or someone willing to bankroll it, there are plenty of guys (myself included) who will supply 10-15 cheaply fitted cruisers if you're willing to use them well. Or in 10 minutes you can just take your fleet to Jita and show them what to buy, giving ISK (or asking for donations from other fleet members) to anyone who can't afford it.

 

Anyone who can't fly the ships/fits you want - tackle.

 


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#9 Xan Drakov

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 03:21 PM

Basing fleets off of stuff available via the corp contracts isn't a bad idea either.


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#10 Telemachus Rheade

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 07:11 PM

I appreciate you guys who want to get doctrines going, but if you guys want to do it, get it done. As Mang said, a lot of RvBers would be resistant to training for a specific ships because someone told them to train for the ship (like me - you'd never get me fully training into battleships because they are fat and slow). However, I may be wrong, and you may get pilots who are willing.

 

The best way is get a corp mail LISTING A FORUM THREAD (so I don't have to yell about spam) where pilots can x up to fly w/e and go from there.

 

I however have mixed feeling about RvB and doctrines. I would like to fly in a doctrine fleet at some point but honestly, I'd rather not have someone tell me what to fly, or have to tell someone what to fly. I usually tell people to bring ships that they are confident and comfortable flying to any WT engagement. I also don't let anyone into my WT fleets, and like to keep it to a small gangish skirmishing group of people, that most of the time I know and have flown with before (usually the Purple channel).

 

For bigger fights, there are only a few "doctrines" that RvB can't roflstomp through sheer force and numbers. The ones that we have trouble with are the ones mentioned. They work because they are somewhat OP and high skilled. 20 high skilled RR Vexors with links vs 40 medium skilled RR Vexors without links doesn't mean that the 40 will win. What I think you'll find in RvB is that you'll get 40 medium or low skilled RR Vexors joining your fight. Best way to deal with some things that WTs bring against us is to not take the fight (I think there is some Sun Tzu in there).

 

I agree with Mangs points about handing out ships if you have the isk for it. But more than anything, if you guys want this going, please DO IT! Actually take the initiative, talk to people, make forum threads like some people have, and just do it consistently. There have been quite a few threads about getting some more doctrines going for RvB, but it has been a lot of talk and not much else. I think you'd find pilots interested in checking out a doctrine that's not a Maller wall from time to time and flying with people who have experience running doctrines. However, doing something consistently is one of those ways that you get people interested in pursuing it further.


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#11 000speks000

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 08:44 PM

o/ comrads i'll try to rspond to this and sory for my broken english spelling :)

whot i can sugest we need only  1 docrine and not like 20 we not pro pvp !!! just stick on lets say caracal fleet with logi and tackle and thats IT 

its cheap efective and new player friendly whot you need to do is folow fc lock primary and press f1

NO guns!!! to complicated for us.

and use this only in times of war or when we going to lowsex or 0.0 (like wos event to kill them nightmares)

and i think lots of people can use caracals at least when i ask in fleet reds can field like 20 easy

 

With love speks


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#12 Owl_Stripes

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 02:29 AM

I really like what I'm reading it is all great input and can not thank you guys enough. I will be putting together some easy to get into with options doctrine's like several have suggest. I will also make sure I fallow through with them and probably take Mangs ideas about making a few dozen myself and handing them out to start with. Keep committing please and if we have some EFT warriors I could use some help and maybe you all can send me some of the fits your thinking about that would work and is easy to get into also doctrine's that can be fitted to different types of ships but close to the same attributes sounds great.  

 

Keep the ideas coming

Owl


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#13 alphastarpilot

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 02:41 PM

I really like what I'm reading it is all great input and can not thank you guys enough. I will be putting together some easy to get into with options doctrine's like several have suggest. I will also make sure I fallow through with them and probably take Mangs ideas about making a few dozen myself and handing them out to start with. Keep committing please and if we have some EFT warriors I could use some help and maybe you all can send me some of the fits your thinking about that would work and is easy to get into also doctrine's that can be fitted to different types of ships but close to the same attributes sounds great.  

 

Keep the ideas coming

Owl

If you participate in Ganked, Daneel is an out of RvB guy that is the master of EFT. So if you need fits poke him on forums or ingame he will make some for you.


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#14 Mangala Solaris

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:42 AM

Basing fleets off of stuff available via the corp contracts isn't a bad idea either.

Gary does a great job with something similar to this - puts up his stuff on corp contract to Red for specific styles of fleets he runs. This way people can take part/see whats needed & purchase their own.


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#15 Tweek Etimua

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 10:30 PM

Contract Doctrines. 

For RvB space if you want to try and pull of a doctrine I'd say it's best to tell every one to go buy a "X" contract Frigs or what ever. But again this makes more sense for a Red VS blue fight. but a purple fight out in low or null....You'll find that a small percent will step up for a doctrine...and the rest will either show up in what ever they want or drop fleet. 

 


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